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Secret Santa Complainers


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It's kinda like how people ask Valve to give us new weapons, but when they give us new weapons noone really cares.

 

Here, I'll make this very simple.

 

 

People who did not send a message to their Gifter and Recipient were removed from Secret Santa.

People who did not submit their gift before the given time limit were removed.

 

90% of people who are complaining about being removed right now have either did not send a message, or only deposited their gifts to the site inventory, but did not submit it.

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This is not the way to address the problem.

 

The problem here is how neither of those requirements were well communicated at all, leaving people confused over what's going on.

 

For example, the secret santa page claims that all a user has to do is "simply deposit your items, and we'll do the rest". This implies that completing the trade offer required to deposit items is all that needs to be done, and I can understand people assuming this. Furthermore, the only indication that more steps need to be taken is the presence of a "Select gift" button on the secret santa page itself, no notifications or site-wide notices telling you that you aren't done, just an easily missed button on a single page. Considering how likely it is that people assumed the trade offer was enough, I could understand the possibility of them simply never looking at the page again after accepting the offer, meaning they would never have seen this button or known that they hadn't submitted a gift.

 

The other noticeable omission is the lack of notifications for people who didn't select a gift when the deadline was closing in. The site has a notification system, so it would have been little work to send out a notification to people who hadn't submitted gifts to say "Hey you have 24 hours left, submit a gift to avoid being marked as a Grinch".

 

In the end, this is just a case of poor UI design confusing users, and should be treated as such. Please do not talk down to users who made this mistake, as it is a perfectly understandable mistake to make when you consider the above issues. Talking down to them, or labelling them "complainers" who need large font sizes to understand anything, will only discourage them from taking part in community events in the future.

 

I understand it seems straightforward to you, as you already know how the system works. Not everyone does, and this system does a terrible job of explaining itself to people who don't already know how it works.

 

Lets hope these issues result in the system being improved for next year.

Edited by Jim
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28 minutes ago, Ezekiel said:

There was an announcement which let people know about submitting gifts.

Also, it should be noted that the event page has [Gift Items] on it, which shows the site inventory, which means you need to trade your items and then submit them.

 

The fact of the matter is, dozens, possible hundreds of people have all made the same mistake. This is a clear indication that the UI has issues, regardless of how intuitive you yourself find it.

 

It's also worth mentioning that you are support staff, you are no doubt trained in how to use the site, so that you can offer support. I can understand that this may make it hard to put yourself In the shoes of a user who has no experience here, but these events have shown that this system simply isn't well explained at all. This is all obvious based on the number of people who have made raffles, threads, and comments asking for help on why they've been banned "for no reason". Talking down to users in comments, or explaining how intuitive you think It is wont change that I'm afraid.

 

Also on a more personal level, I think the attitude you are displaying in recent comments is unconstructive and potentially harmful. Users making a mistake is one thing, but being talked to as if they are stupid for making it is entirely another which may cause them to avoid further community interaction. This is something I doubt any of us want to see, so I think concentrating on sorting the issue out rather than getting bogged down on what's already happened is important here.

Edited by Jim
random sentence pasted in the middle of my reply for some reason
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1. All users had 2 months to read over the rules and ways the event works. Everyone knew what they should have been signing up for.

 

2. The layout/UI wasn't the problem. Anyone with common sense and have been using the site for at least 5+ minutes should know what a big blue button looks like.

 

3. Messaging your gifter and recipient is also just common sense. People had a fair warning.

 

4. The argument of changing the UI and changing description of the secret santa is out of discussion since changing it during the event would no doubt break tons of things.

 

5. There was a warning every few days by Geel about changes and extending the deadline.

 

 

In the end It's simply a bad metaphor to pay attention and use common sense

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Just now, ❆Shebby | Scrap.TF said:

1. All users had 2 months to read over the rules and ways the event works. Everyone knew what they should have been signing up for.

 

2. The layout/UI wasn't the problem. Anyone with common sense and have been using the site for at least 5+ minutes should know what a big blue button looks like.

 

3. Messaging your gifter and recipient is also just common sense. People had a fair warning.

 

4. The argument of changing the UI and changing description of the secret santa is out of discussion since changing it during the event would no doubt break tons of things.

 

5. There was a warning every few days by Geel about changes and extending the deadline.

 

 

In the end It's simply a bad metaphor to pay attention and use common sense

 

My previous reply is relevant here

 

2 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

The fact of the matter is, dozens, possible hundreds of people have all made the same mistake. This is a clear indication that the UI has issues, regardless of how intuitive you yourself find it.

 

Also on a more personal level, I think the attitude you are displaying in recent comments is unconstructive and potentially harmful. Users making a mistake is one thing, but being talked to as if they are stupid for making it is entirely another which may cause them to avoid further community interaction. This is something I doubt any of us want to see, so I think concentrating on sorting the issue out rather than getting bogged down on what's already happened is important here.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

My previous reply is relevant here

 

The fact of the matter is, dozens, possible hundreds of people have all made the same mistake. This is a clear indication that the UI has issues, regardless of how intuitive you yourself find it.

 

 

 

It's already been figured out how everyone made the mistake. There would be no real way to fix this unless you're just asking for one of the devs to make the Submit gift button a few pixels bigger. The site inventory uses the exact same system and type of bots as trades, which everyone on this site has used at least once.

 

There will always be mistakes to be had

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I am more annoyed by the fact that now i have to get another gift to my new recipient. I had it personalized for my previous one, but now he is gone and the old gift just doesn't cut it for the new guy.  
And i doubt i am the only one with such an issue. 

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27 minutes ago, ❆Shebby | Scrap.TF said:

 There would be no real way to fix this unless you're just asking for one of the devs to make the Submit gift button a few pixels bigger.

 

I'm afraid  that simply isn't true. There are plenty of ways to change the page design to be more intuitive. If I have the time I'll mock some ideas up to prove this (I'm no designer but I think I can get the basic ideas across). 

 

27 minutes ago, ❆Shebby | Scrap.TF said:

 The site inventory uses the exact same system and type of bots as trades, which everyone on this site has used at least once.

 

The one major difference however is that none of the other banking methods require some arbitrary extra step after trading has occurred (every single banking type and raffles) nor do they promise "simply deposit" when in fact extra steps are required (auctions).

This single difference also happens to be the main problem. 

 

27 minutes ago, ❆Shebby | Scrap.TF said:

There will always be mistakes to be had

 

Correct,  that's why it is important to use those mistakes to improve the site for everyone, rather than mocking the users who made them. 

 

Edited by Jim
fixed weird undeletable extra quote
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1 hour ago, ❆Shebby | Scrap.TF said:

It's kinda like how people ask Valve to give us new weapons, but when they give us new weapons noone really cares.

 

Here, I'll make this very simple.

 

 

People who did not send a message to their Gifter and Recipient were removed from Secret Santa.

People who did not submit their gift before the given time limit were removed.

 

90% of people who are complaining about being removed right now have either did not send a message, or only deposited their gifts to the site inventory, but did not submit it.

It's kinda like how people ask Valve to give us new weapons, but when they give us new weapons noone really cares.

 

Im just gonna say that people do actually care bout new weps so I don't know y u said that

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Huh, I actually just saw this thread after Jim commented on my raffle , so I fugured there was something on forum.

 

So yeah, like I said in my raffle, I think it's the UI issue, not the people issue. Just like someone posted the video about doors

 

I feel like banning people who simply made a mistake isn't a very good community move. It's basically like this:

"Hey there, new person, welcome to scrap! We have an event going on, want to join? Simply deposit your item and we'll handle everything else"

So the new person does as they're told. They don't come to the site every day so they're not very familiar with the website and how it works. They then go to see if their recipient is happy and/or check the gift they receive and this is what they get: "You're banned from all future events". I don't think it's a friendly thing to do, and it simply discourages people from coming here again.

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9 minutes ago, RedPhoenix said:

I feel like banning people who simply made a mistake isn't a very good community move. It's basically like this:

"Hey there, new person, welcome to scrap! We have an event going on, want to join? Simply deposit your item and we'll handle everything else"

So the new person does as they're told. They don't come to the site every day so they're not very familiar with the website and how it works. They then go to see if their recipient is happy and/or check the gift they receive and this is what they get: "You're banned from all future events". I don't think it's a friendly thing to do, and it simply discourages people from coming here again.

 

You summed it up pretty well there I think, its not friendly. If you then combine the bans with the current community response to them, namely various confused raffles and the occasional unhelpful comment telling them to "read next time" (read what?) or that the interface is perfectly intuitive and its your fault (if hundreds of people mess up you've done something wrong), and also support telling them nothing can be done, its really not a good atmosphere for potential new users who fancy joining in next time is it?

 

Also I only care about current weapons, rip bison

Edited by Jim
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18 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

You summed it up pretty well there I think, its not friendly. If you then combine the bans with the current community response to them, namely various confused raffles and the occasional unhelpful comment telling them to "read next time" (read what?) or that the interface is perfectly intuitive and its your fault (if hundreds of people mess up you've done something wrong), and also support telling them nothing can be done, its really not a good atmosphere for potential new users who fancy joining in next time is it?

 

Also I only care about current weapons, rip bison

 

Yeah, I'm with you here.

 

Also, another issue.

As I got new matches (in my case - both Santa and recipient), I got a notification that if I don't send them a message "soon", I will be banned. This raises a question: When exactly does "soon" end? And also, say I talked to both my initial recipient and Santa. It was all good, I deposited and submitted my gift. I then go on vacation, have a week-long blackout, have my computer break down, have no internet connection, get busy with life stuff or simply not log into Scrap between the moment my Santa/recipient got re-rolled and the moment "soon" expires. So, despite the fact that I did everything right, but simply wasn't there on time to see this notification, I get banned? Doesn't seem too fair.

Edited by RedPhoenix
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I traded the item and submited it to my giftee, even talked with him and my gifter, still got removed and marked as grinch. Also, if it wont let me participate, at least give me the item I submitted back.

Really stupid something like this happens, I was part on last year's Secret Santa and everything went smoothly, this year is just a complete huge mess

Edited by TF2C | Simba Claus
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9 minutes ago, Lukiday 🐈 said:

I'm quite sure the soon was still there from before the 20th, I don't think that you'd be removed anymore as there are no further actions required.

 

I don't know, I only received the notification once I got rematched. An announcement was posted in steam group about the changes for next year and that grinch mark has been lifted off everyone, so thank you for listening, and thanks Jim for voicing out

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18 hours ago, Jim said:

This is not the way to address the problem.

 

The problem here is how neither of those requirements were well communicated at all, leaving people confused over what's going on.

 

For example, the secret santa page claims that all a user has to do is "simply deposit your items, and we'll do the rest". This implies that completing the trade offer required to deposit items is all that needs to be done, and I can understand people assuming this. Furthermore, the only indication that more steps need to be taken is the presence of a "Select gift" button on the secret santa page itself, no notifications or site-wide notices telling you that you aren't done, just an easily missed button on a single page. Considering how likely it is that people assumed the trade offer was enough, I could understand the possibility of them simply never looking at the page again after accepting the offer, meaning they would never have seen this button or known that they hadn't submitted a gift.

 

The other noticeable omission is the lack of notifications for people who didn't select a gift when the deadline was closing in. The site has a notification system, so it would have been little work to send out a notification to people who hadn't submitted gifts to say "Hey you have 24 hours left, submit a gift to avoid being marked as a Grinch".

 

In the end, this is just a case of poor UI design confusing users, and should be treated as such. Please do not talk down to users who made this mistake, as it is a perfectly understandable mistake to make when you consider the above issues. Talking down to them, or labelling them "complainers" who need large font sizes to understand anything, will only discourage them from taking part in community events in the future.

 

I understand it seems straightforward to you, as you already know how the system works. Not everyone does, and this system does a terrible job of explaining itself to people who don't already know how it works.

 

Lets hope these issues result in the system being improved for next year.

Perfectly Said,

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