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Gaia's Minion

Future Secret Santa Suggestions

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Going by people's feedback/reactions/complaints/issues/etc. about the Secret Santa Event, I'm going to post some suggestions to improve the Secret Santa Events to come, in no particular order:

 

1. Joining Requirements. Quite some people seem to complain that their Gift Recipient was just an Alt Account (or at least looked like one), with little to no hours in TF2, barely active on the site, etc. So there could be more requirements in order to join/participate in the Event. I.e. Have at least 50 trades done in the site, Has been on the Site for at least 2 months, etc.

 

2. Early Regifting. Due to Regifting being on the last day to Submit Gifts, there's no time to change your Gift in case you get a new match so you could end up with a gift that isn't "relevant" for your new match (i.e. you Gift a Scout Set to your original recipient, but your new one never plays Scout) so maybe do the Regifting process around the 18-20th to give people more time to talk to their new matches, and modify gifts.

 

3. Removing Silent Matches. Another common issue is/was Santas and/or Recipients not communicating at all and in the cases of Santas, a lot of times this meant that the User was just going to get 1 ref and done, which leads to people to complain due to it being a cheap tactic and just not in the spirit of the event. So maybe remove silent Santas/Recipients or Santas/Recipients that barely talk, there could be a Minimum of messages sent or something like that, said Min. would be kept a secret of course so people don't just spam enough messages to cheese it.

 

4. Talking Time. Bit on the same note as the previous one, people don't like having silent matches and with the Event being to spread the Christmas Cheer and such, it's quite sad that some participants don't bother talking, there's also the sour feeling of Santas throwing random items as gifts without bothering to at least check if they're "relevant" for you. So then, have a set time (maybe 3-5 days) where Submitting Gifts is not available and participants talk to their Matches, just talk and get to know them a bit to then be able to select proper Gifts.

 

5. PSAs. Simple enough, have either a detailed Announcement or some Pinned Raffle(s) to let people know of important dates within the Event as well as explaining them step-by-step how to properly do things like depositing and submitting Gifts. For example, one I made on the 23rd: https://scrap.tf/raffles/JA8UR1

And yes, I know that Announcements are already made, I've seen them, but I meant more detailed instead of being just like reminders, with detailed ones then people would have an easier time getting things done, and Staff would get a break from people constantly asking how to do Event things on their Profiles, Announcements, Raffles, etc.

 

Alternatively, maybe just make a Guide in the Help Center like the ones that already exist ( https://scrap.tf/help/search/guide ) so then said Guide would just get linked in the Announcement(s).

 

 

So that'd be all for now, feel free to give feedback on the ones already suggested as well as suggesting more rules/ideas, however keep them rational so no "Increase the Min value to X Ref", "Match people based on how much they gift", "Punish people who only gift the Min", etc

Edited by Gaia's Minion

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1. Maybe doing x amount of trades might be a bit much; Remi, for example, has only done two... But I totally understand this. Not sure what the best metric would be for it though, considering alt accounts can get to be very old themselves...

2. I'm all for this. I'd be shattered if my recipient was swapped out with someone who'd have no use for my gifts... Having time in advance could really help with that!

3. I like the thought behind this. I'm not sure how easy it would be to enforce though...

4. I like this idea! In fact, it might work well with the 3rd suggestion; given this time is just for talking, silent users could potentially be warned or weeded out here, depending on how it's decided to work.

5. This is always a good idea! I know from experience that even the seemingly simplest things can be quite complicated; I've heard tale of many accidentally finding themselves grinching due to missing deadlines or not understanding how the system works; this suggestion might help with that.

 

I can't think of anything extra to add onto it myself, but those are my thoughts on the points :3

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I overall kinda like this suggestion. The only thing that concern me is 3/4. The idea is good, but I can put myself as example: 4 messages in less than 10 minutes and I already had their gifts, so there could at least be a checkbox or something like that for when the deadline comes, the ones that are not checked would be revised, but that would be an extra annoyance for staff

Edited by Hoshino Yumemi

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Gonna have to agree with Pacca here since I only have 2 trades interestingly. Having more time for the regifting process would be good so the gifter doesn't panic and give a random item with no sentimental value. I think that having a min messages sent would be nice (and there should be a big warning on the Secret Santa enter page that you must send a min of 3-5 messages would be nice). However, only remove a santa if they take more than 3 days to reply or so. Rest is fine 😄

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34 minutes ago, Gilogg said:

Be able to see if your Secret Santa has a gift ready for you would be nice.

 

Though this could backfire, you'd have people mad at their Santas seeing "Your Gift is ready!" or something like that even though they barely have talked to their Santa, some could spam their Santa to hurry up, or just get mad at the Santa for not getting the gift ready at all and getting removed.

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1 minute ago, Gaia's Minion said:

Though this could backfire, you'd have people mad at their Santas seeing "Your Gift is ready!" or something like that even though they barely have talked to their Santa, some could spam their Santa to hurry up, or just get mad at the Santa for not getting the gift ready at all and getting removed.

Yeah you're right.

 

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about 3 and 4, I just personally don't really like the idea that people should be obligated to try and find something personalized for their recipient. As long as they've gotten an item worth enough ref, they should be able to sell it to a bot from backpack.tf to get something they really want... just my opinion.

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I like all 5 of those ideas, but the 3th and 4th idea seem to be a bit way too forced since...

 

1. Peeps usually always have exams in Christsmas

2. Their's Scrap.tf peeps who don't even speak English to begin with (Unless you wanna communicate with ur receipient with Google Translate, which is good luck on that)

3. Humans surely are busy species, especially in such holidays

 

 

But anyways, I wanna give some of my suggestions

 

My suggestion would be:

 

1. Talking to your Secret Santa/Recipient as an Event Quest in order to join some of the Secret Event Raffles.

 

You remebere last year when you would buy a ticket, and commit into the bar in order to join the raffle? What if we bring that back so that peeps will actually care to talk to their Secret Santa/Recipient in order to get into the expensive raffles and such?

 

2. Giving that much "insert cost value" to your recipient will get you a special badge in-game for that.

 

You know when there's like special support donate events going on, and you have to donate 10$ in order to receive this cool badge and such in-game... Many peeps seemed to really want to get the badge, and were just doing it for the badge more in most of the previous events,(No offense) So what if we did the same for the Secret Santa, I know it might actually be a pretty hard thing to do, and weird suggestion in a way, but I believe that will make everyone happy in a way and kinda at least make some peeps have some sort of want to give at least some stuff beside 1 ref.

 

 

 

I hope I gave some good suggestions at least... I'm pretty new to all the forums shenanigans here. Sorry for my poor grammar also.

 

Edited by Mr-Fluf
I miss-spelled something that made no sense

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1. Well, I've done numerous amount of trades (since I get the weapons which I raffle off from scrap) but till this day my profile only shows 0 which means that's an issue (but Pacca and Remi mentioned that part already).
3. How about you have to fill in a desc. about items or just classes, you want to receive gifts for. For example: "Hey Secret Santa! I'm a scout main, but I also enjoy playing spy a lot. I have a lot of weapons/cosmetics but not much cosmetics/weapons for these classes. etc. etc."

(This way even if there's a switch the filled in desc. will be shown to the new Secret Santas so they have an easier job if the recipient is busy like Mr-Fluf said.)
Agreed on all the other points.

Edited by Rbn
Can't speak Engrishu

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10 hours ago, Profile Lame said:

Hmm... Since many people complain about "recieving only one ref" or something like that, What if we just disallow the use of pure in secret santa? (apart from keys, of course.)

That would be a bit of a strong move, personally I don't give ref but I know some people rather give Ref so their Recipient chooses what to buy instead of choosing it themselves because they want to avoid choosing a "bad" Hat/Cosmetic/Strange/etc. (Even though I don't think there are bad things but you know, each to their own)

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8 hours ago, surprisingly soft said:

about 3 and 4, I just personally don't really like the idea that people should be obligated to try and find something personalized for their recipient. As long as they've gotten an item worth enough ref, they should be able to sell it to a bot from backpack.tf to get something they really want... just my opinion.

It is absolutely not obligatory, but encouraged (even the Event Page says "Ask them any questions you want, find out what they like, and get them a personalized gift!") because after all, what would be the point in joining if you'll just throw around random stuff and call it a day without even asking easy stuff like "What class do you main"?

 

You make a valid point because some people do prefer to just get Ref/Keys and then buy stuff themselves, but again, most people want at least something that shows that their Santa took at least 1-2 minutes to check their TF2 Stats to see their most played class.

 

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I have a couple of ideas to add to your ones:

 

1. Add a task in the holiday event which involves talking to your recipient. This will give people incentive to talk to their recipient and possibly encourage them to personalize their gifts.

2. Display an obvious message at the top of the Secret Santa page that reads "You have not yet submitted a gift." This would help clear the confusion between the submitted gifts and the site inventory.

3. Warn users who still haven't submitted a gift three days from the deadline. Another device to prevent accidental grinching.

4. Add a text box/form on the Secret Santa sign up page where users can write their interests eg. Favorite class, etc. If users did this before participating, it would allow Santas to better understand their recipient's interests if they are unable to chat.

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7 hours ago, Mr-Fluf said:

I like all 5 of those ideas, but the 3th and 4th idea seem to be a bit way too forced since...

 

1. Peeps usually always have exams in Christsmas

2. Their's Scrap.tf peeps who don't even speak English to begin with (Unless you wanna communicate with ur receipient with Google Translate, which is good luck on that)

3. Humans surely are busy species, especially in such holidays

For 1, I guess it depends on the School System, here (and in other places I've heard) students have December as vacations or at least aren't having a lot of exams.

 

I kinda agree on the 2nd point, though from what I've seen throughout the years, most non-english speaker tend to still be able to communicate, not perfectly but it's not like super broken english either so I don't think it'd be That much of a problem.

 

As for 3, that's reasonable.

 

The point of 3 and 4 are kinda just to at least try to communicate and get ideas of what you'll gift, obviously you'll still be able to talk throughout the rest of the event in case you were busy/absent in the "Just Talk" days.

 

7 hours ago, Mr-Fluf said:

But anyways, I wanna give some of my suggestions

 

My suggestion would be:

 

1. Talking to your Secret Santa/Recipient as an Event Quest in order to join some of the Secret Event Raffles.

 

You remebere last year when you would buy a ticket, and commit into the bar in order to join the raffle? What if we bring that back so that peeps will actually care to talk to their Secret Santa/Recipient in order to get into the expensive raffles and such?

 

2. Giving that much "insert cost value" to your recipient will get you a special badge in-game for that.

 

You know when there's like special support donate events going on, and you have to donate 10$ in order to receive this cool badge and such in-game... Many peeps seemed to really want to get the badge, and were just doing it for the badge more in most of the previous events,(No offense) So what if we did the same for the Secret Santa, I know it might actually be a pretty hard thing to do, and weird suggestion in a way, but I believe that will make everyone happy in a way and kinda at least make some peeps have some sort of want to give at least some stuff beside 1 ref.

 

For the 1st one, it would be nice but it would also be kinda easy to bypass if people just spam stuff to their Santa/Recipient. I do not know how possible it is, but if that was  implemented, there'd have to be a way for the site to detect if you're actually talking/having a conversation with them and not just spamming.

 

For the 2nd one, an In-Game badge would be quite difficult, with designing it, actually having it approved by Valve and then being distributed. A Profile Badge (in case you were thinking of that too) would also be a bit bad, because people could get a over their heads like "Oh look at how generous I was! I'm very kind!"

 

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7 hours ago, Rbn said:

1. Well, I've done numerous amount of trades (since I get the weapons which I raffle off from scrap) but till this day my profile only shows 0 which means that's an issue (but Pacca and Remi mentioned that part already).

 

1. As I've told Pacca and Remi in Steam, that is a Visual Bug, the site likely knows the real number but is just doesn't show it. So if the Minimum Trades were implemented, you'd likely be alright, and they'd fix the bug to avoid confusion.

 

 

7 hours ago, Rbn said:

3. How about you have to fill in a desc. about items or just classes, you want to receive gifts for. For example: "Hey Secret Santa! I'm a scout main, but I also enjoy playing spy a lot. I have a lot of weapons/cosmetics but not much cosmetics/weapons for these classes. etc. etc."

(This way even if there's a switch the filled in desc. will be shown to the new Secret Santas so they have an easier job if the recipient is busy like Mr-Fluf said.)
Agreed on all the other points.

22 minutes ago, Ivan the Space Biker said:

4. Add a text box/form on the Secret Santa sign up page where users can write their interests eg. Favorite class, etc. If users did this before participating, it would allow Santas to better understand their recipient's interests if they are unable to chat.

Sounds a bit like a "Letter to Santa" which would be nice to help Santas as both of you said, and it would be related to the Event so it sounds like a good feature.

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45 minutes ago, Ivan the Space Biker said:

1. Add a task in the holiday event which involves talking to your recipient. This will give people incentive to talk to their recipient and possibly encourage them to personalize their gifts.

2. Display an obvious message at the top of the Secret Santa page that reads "You have not yet submitted a gift." This would help clear the confusion between the submitted gifts and the site inventory.

3. Warn users who still haven't submitted a gift three days from the deadline. Another device to prevent accidental grinching.

1. Easy enough, would also be a New Quest so that's also a plus.

 

2. That also sounds good, an Announcement or Banner would be nice and pretty hard to miss.

 

3. Yeah warning days before a deadline is always good, and prevents things like people doing it last minute, slowing bots and making things harder than they should be.

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19 hours ago, Mr-Fluf said:

2. Giving that much "insert cost value" to your recipient will get you a special badge in-game for that.

 

You know when there's like special support donate events going on, and you have to donate 10$ in order to receive this cool badge and such in-game... Many peeps seemed to really want to get the badge, and were just doing it for the badge more in most of the previous events,(No offense) So what if we did the same for the Secret Santa, I know it might actually be a pretty hard thing to do, and weird suggestion in a way, but I believe that will make everyone happy in a way and kinda at least make some peeps have some sort of want to give at least some stuff beside 1 ref.

 

Maybe a scrap.tf profile badge instead of an in-game badge? I'm not super familiar with the donation badges that exist but something like Tip of the Hats supports children with cancer, whereas just being generous in, say, 2019's Secret Santa would just only help your single recipient. Both are charitable causes but... one goes to a group of people who probably need it more. But yeah I do really like the idea of a sort of badge.

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10 minutes ago, surprisingly soft said:

 

Maybe a scrap.tf profile badge instead of an in-game badge? I'm not super familiar with the donation badges that exist but something like Tip of the Hats supports children with cancer, whereas just being generous in, say, 2019's Secret Santa would just only help your single recipient. Both are charitable causes but... one goes to a group of people who probably need it more. But yeah I do really like the idea of a sort of badge.

A Profile Badge would be quite troublesome because people could get over their heads like "Oh look at how generous I was! I'm very kind guys!" which would defeat the purpose of the badge.

 

Also people already get a Badge for Participating, so I don't know if Staff/Jesse/Geel would be willing to give more than 1 badge for an event,

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17 hours ago, Gaia's Minion said:

For 1, I guess it depends on the School System, here (and in other places I've heard) students have December as vacations or at least aren't having a lot of exams.

 

I kinda agree on the 2nd point, though from what I've seen throughout the years, most non-english speaker tend to still be able to communicate, not perfectly but it's not like super broken english either so I don't think it'd be That much of a problem.

 

As for 3, that's reasonable.

 

The point of 3 and 4 are kinda just to at least try to communicate and get ideas of what you'll gift, obviously you'll still be able to talk throughout the rest of the event in case you were busy/absent in the "Just Talk" days.

1. Here in Israel we get a lot of exams at the end of the year, but that's no wonder why since Christmas isn't really a thing here, yet most of the 60% of the population celebrate it here

 

2. I've seeing a lot of people who seem to be making more and more raffles with  different languages, but I guess you're right upon the fact that even with their bit of gibberish English, they can still communicate pretty well

 

I understand that your point of focus is to make the person less uncomfortable within their Secret Santa actually saying something and all. But even then, it just seems a bit forced into making a person talk since some just wanna give a gift, and be as silent as possible, some might just feel awkward talking in general. I'd just imagine an conversation that'd be just

 

Person 1: Hey, so... What gift you want?

Person 2: An Unusual

Person 1: Alright... I'll get you it right away

Person 2: Thanks

Person 1: ...

Person 2: ...

Person 1: So, how's the weather?

 

You did say minimum messages, that's a good idea. But that'll be the same result with my idea within quests of just being people spamming, but I'll get to that point.

 

17 hours ago, Gaia's Minion said:

For the 1st one, it would be nice but it would also be kinda easy to bypass if people just spam stuff to their Santa/Recipient. I do not know how possible it is, but if that was  implemented, there'd have to be a way for the site to detect if you're actually talking/having a conversation with them and not just spamming.

That's true that'd be easy to bypass with spam, but at least that'd make the person at least know with what kind of secret Santa they're dealing with, most people got angry for the gifts, but most people also got angry for the amount of how silent the Secret Santa is, which was pretty much my case with my Secret Santa being way too busy to even talk.

 

17 hours ago, Gaia's Minion said:

For the 2nd one, an In-Game badge would be quite difficult, with designing it, actually having it approved by Valve and then being distributed. A Profile Badge (in case you were thinking of that too) would also be a bit bad, because people could get a over their heads like "Oh look at how generous I was! I'm very kind!"

Never said that'd be a easy task, that's why I said "it'd be a hard thing to do" why I taught it was a good idea, is because as you said "they'll just show how generous they were" yes they will, but at least you can kinda call it "He forced himself to be generous, so he deserved it" is not like people are going to form a cult around his name, and worship him since he donated 10$ value item for a badge. People did the same thing for the previous events just donating 10$ on hugs.tf if I recall, and were just doing it for the badge, it did help raise some money, and that's what matter. That why I taught it'd be an nice idea for the Secret Santa event, since less people will be complaining about their Secret Santa giving their recipient just a ref because they'll be focused on getting the badge instead.

 

Now for Profile Badge, I didn't really think about it much, since not many people honestly care about getting a badge in Scrap.tf (or maybe is just me thinking that)  but if it was a popular thing, and people did in fact want to show off how generous they really are with just their profile badge, that'd honestly be a weird flex. I mean, you have pretty much Raffle Veteran badge which just requires you to make 50 raffles over the 2 years if I recall, which you can pretty much easily earn by raffling 1 wep each day, and huzzah. (is probably the worse example, but you get the point) You now have something to flex with, maybe I just don't really care upon how many badges my profile has in it, but I really don't see a problem here. In fact, who doesn't want to show off a bit?

 

 

Now that I look at ur 3. Idea, I guess it does make up to be a pretty fair idea, but I prefer the quest option so that it's more of an option to talk, then forcing a person to talk.

 

 

Edited by Mr-Fluf
As usual, bad grammar correcting

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6 hours ago, Mr-Fluf said:

Never said that'd be a easy task, that's why I said "it'd be a hard thing to do" why I taught it was a good idea, is because as you said "they'll just show how generous they were" yes they will, but at least you can kinda call it "He forced himself to be generous, so he deserved it" is not like people are going to form a cult around his name, and worship him since he donated 10$ value item for a badge. People did the same thing for the previous events just donating 10$ on hugs.tf if I recall, and were just doing it for the badge, it did help raise some money, and that's what matter. That why I taught it'd be an nice idea for the Secret Santa event, since less people will be complaining about their Secret Santa giving their recipient just a ref because they'll be focused on getting the badge instead.

 

Now for Profile Badge, I didn't really think about it much, since not many people honestly care about getting a badge in Scrap.tf (or maybe is just me thinking that)  but if it was a popular thing, and people did in fact want to show off how generous they really are with just their profile badge, that'd honestly be a weird flex. I mean, you have pretty much Raffle Veteran badge which just requires you to make 50 raffles over the 2 years if I recall, which you can pretty much easily earn by raffling 1 wep each day, and huzzah. (is probably the worse example, but you get the point) You now have something to flex with, maybe I just don't really care upon how many badges my profile has in it, but I really don't see a problem here. In fact, who doesn't want to show off a bit?

There's nothing wrong with showing off every now and again, the issue comes with toxicity/elitism that could start with users (I know it sounds pessimistic but with the community being as big as it is, you never know) and them bragigng about how "generous" they are and also belittling those who couldn't afford to gift as much.

 

On a positive view, you make a good point, people would actually try to give a nice gift to get the badge, so IF implemented, there has to be like 3-5 "tiers". The only issue with this would be pricing, since some things can be overpriced, underpriced, or not priced at all by Scrap.tf, so you could end with a Higher/Lower Badge by mistake.

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3 hours ago, Gaia's Minion said:

There's nothing wrong with showing off every now and again, the issue comes with toxicity/elitism that could start with users (I know it sounds pessimistic but with the community being as big as it is, you never know) and them bragigng about how "generous" they are and also belittling those who couldn't afford to gift as much.

 

On a positive view, you make a good point, people would actually try to give a nice gift to get the badge, so IF implemented, there has to be like 3-5 "tiers". The only issue with this would be pricing, since some things can be overpriced, underpriced, or not priced at all by Scrap.tf, so you could end with a Higher/Lower Badge by mistake.

Hmmm- I guess you're kinda right, the community is pretty big, but I doubt that it'll be the whole community braging, being toxic and all about how generous they are. Maybe 10-20% of peeps, but that's honestly about it. There's no such thing as a perfect community afterall.

 

And well, I guess you're very much right about this issue tho. Honestly, the only way I think of maybe not annoying much with pricing is by blacklisting some items, but then that kinda kills the thing with gifting one of those specific item that the person wanted, getting blacklisted

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23 hours ago, Mr-Fluf said:

Hmmm- I guess you're kinda right, the community is pretty big, but I doubt that it'll be the whole community braging, being toxic and all about how generous they are. Maybe 10-20% of peeps, but that's honestly about it. There's no such thing as a perfect community afterall.

Yeah it wouldn't be a lot of people, but as you know, the bad/toxic/annoying/etc. part of a community tends to be the loudest, so it'd have to be treated carefully to avoid it being another "Drama Trend" on the site.

 

23 hours ago, Mr-Fluf said:

And well, I guess you're very much right about this issue tho. Honestly, the only way I think of maybe not annoying much with pricing is by blacklisting some items, but then that kinda kills the thing with gifting one of those specific item that the person wanted, getting blacklisted

I think they could help themselves by using Bp.tf prices alongside Site Prices, still wouldn't be 100% perfect, but it would help imo.

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4 hours ago, Gaia's Minion said:

Yeah it wouldn't be a lot of people, but as you know, the bad/toxic/annoying/etc. part of a community tends to be the loudest, so it'd have to be treated carefully to avoid it being another "Drama Trend" on the site.

 

I think they could help themselves by using Bp.tf prices alongside Site Prices, still wouldn't be 100% perfect, but it would help imo.

You bring up a fair point, I can't really say anything about that. 

 

I did think about bp.tf, but I can also see a lot of Halloween/Paints/No longer usable Items/Skins, but beside those stuff, I can see it being a pretty good idea for the New Secret Santa year event tho, I just only believe it will be absolutely hard to pull off in a way

 

 

Anyways, it was nice having a little argument with you, I guess looking from ur perspective the 3. and 4. idea doesn't sound that bad, but I still kinda have a bit of a mehish feeling on the 3. and 4. idea a bit nevertheless in my mind

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On 12/28/2018 at 3:40 PM, Mr-Fluf said:

 

Thank you for the feedback! As I said in the beginning, this is based off of people's reactions so all feedback is appreciated to see what has to get worked on (if it got implemented) or if totally different things should be implemented.

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