A solution to this Jigidi madness

[Marvash Magalli]

The puzzle section is flooded by Jigidi puzzles.

Nobody likes them, but everybody is doing them. There's no assurance that after one jigidi there isn't a link to another jigidi.
My suggestion is: require people to solve their jigidi before asking for people to solve them.

Their name will show up in the leader-board as a proof of that.
This should help mods too, since wouldn't they be required to solve a jigidi themselves when one of these puzzles gets reported?

[Ronald_D_D]

Perhaps

2 hours ago, Marvash Magalli said:

There's no assurance that after one jigidi there isn't a link to another jigidi.

Yeah, I think the user should link all their jigidi URL's in the solution section so that mods can skip ahead and check if the rest of the jigsaws are solved too.

 

Anyways, jigidi (and by extension, itstoohard.com) are some nice websites but they are external and don't seem to be affiliated with scrap.tf so it would be interesting or (maybe even odd) for scrap.tf to acknowledge it as an additional official rule.

 

I guess multiple jigsaw links comes down to how scrap.tf places strong emphasis that the solution box must explain everything and not just "put together all the pieces and you get another jigsaw link lol".

 

People have been writing the answers for their itstoohard.com quiz in the solution box too which is nice, but not everybody has (or realises that they probably should).

 

Edit: I think they should also make sure that they solve their jigidi in a reasonable time. Someone shouldn't post an overly large jigsaw that they solved themselves and it took several hours but the time they allocated for the puzzle raffle was only an hour and/or had limited entries.

Edited August 18 by Ronald_D_D

[Marvash Magalli]

5 hours ago, Ronald_D_D said:

I think they should also make sure that they solve their jigidi in a reasonable time. Someone shouldn't post an overly large jigsaw that they solved themselves and it took several hours but the time they allocated for the puzzle raffle was only an hour and/or had limited entries.

That would qualify the puzzle as unsolvable, and it would be closed.

 

5 hours ago, Ronald_D_D said:

it would be interesting or (maybe even odd) for scrap.tf to acknowledge it as an additional official rule.

Jesse already asked "the puzzlers" in a forum thread if it was the case of completely ban jigidis once, so it wouldn't be so odd imo

[Jesse]

I asked the same thing last time but how do you all feel about banning Jigidi and jigsaw puzzles in general? We're all for it since it's just a big annoyance trying to decide if they can be reasonably solved.

[Marvash Magalli]

I don't think anybody would really miss them if they were banned, they don't add anything to the puzzle section.
They should be fine if linked in a private raffle, or wherever puzzle rules don't stand.

Maybe an alternative solution to my leaderboards suggestion would be to put a pieces limit and a consecutive number of jigsaw puzzles chained together limit,  in order to act not only about Jigidi.com, but jigsaw puzzles in general.

Trying to meet the needs of any jigsaw lover, if there really are any, with this alternative suggestion, but I'd be totally ok for a complete ban of jigsaws from the puzzle section.

[Faxon Fury]

I personally wouldn't mind if they were banned. It is so easy to make the puzzle take forever, meaning people WILL waste time solving it to see if the puzzle is even solvable.
It's not fun, and the utter disappointment of having the password you get (if there even is one) be incorrect, most likely due to the raffler's incompetence, is extremely painful.

[Ronald_D_D]

Maybe not having them in the puzzle section perhaps. I am indifferent if they stay or go. So I will go with what the majority says.

 

I don't know how this supposed rule would apply to public invites into private raffle chains that may contain them but that may go by what is considered as a private raffle.

 

I think more opinions are needed. I'm sure most will say "ban the jigsaws that have an overly large amount of pieces" however if all jigsaws are tedious to moderate by staff then ultimately it's their choice.

[timomo3]

What about just making jigidi raffles a hassle to make like in the solution they need to list all jigidi links in order (if there are multiple),  they need screencaps of each puzzle solved with time and with message eg. like the pics below (they could put it in an imgur album but it must be labeled for what jigidi puzzle), then after that also add a copy pastable text of the message be it pastebin links or just pasted there. the problem though would be that it would be hard to tell and suddenly require everyone to do this

[Marvash Magalli]

15 hours ago, timomo3 said:

What about just making jigidi raffles a hassle to make like in the solution they need to list all jigidi links in order (if there are multiple),  they need screencaps of each puzzle solved with time and with message eg. like the pics below (they could put it in an imgur album but it must be labeled for what jigidi puzzle), then after that also add a copy pastable text of the message be it pastebin links or just pasted there. the problem though would be that it would be hard to tell and suddenly require everyone to do this

90% of the users who make Jigidi don't read the rules.
People struggle to put the main message, entered message, and solution in the right tab when creating a puzzle, so you can't reasonably expect them to follow that procedure to make a jigsaw puzzle.

[timomo3]

1 hour ago, Marvash Magalli said:

90% of the users who make Jigidi don't read the rules.
People struggle to put the main message, entered message, and solution in the right tab when creating a puzzle, so you can't reasonably expect them to follow that procedure to make a jigsaw puzzle.

Right good point. What about adding a time limit? Jigidi puzzles should be solvable on first try by at most 1 hr total (by total I mean if there were chains it should all be solved within the 1 hr time limit)

 

I might have less say in this since I've only just returned but I dont mind the ban. Although, the occasional jigidi of at most 200 pcs is relaxing since its straightforward.

Edited August 21 by timomo3

[Maxx]

Like most puzzlers, I don't mind jigidi puzzles being banned all together.

 

Maybe there could be be a sort of compromise like only jigidis under 100 pieces, or links that are used as a fake out for a different solution (meaning no solving of the jigidi is actually required), etc.

 

Though again as mentioned by others before, it's still up to staff discretion and I wouldn't be surprised if they ban it.

 

A clear seperate article/section for puzzle rules would be nice, preferably with consequences (e.g. 24 hour ban for breaking rule 6 about jigidi's).

Edited August 22 by Maxx

[Jesse]

I'd rather not add complex rules like "must submit screenshot of jigsaw puzzles" and "jigsaw puzzles must be limited to x number of pieces". I'd rather keep it simple and either allow or disallow them.

I also want to move all puzzle rules to the (semi outdated) yellow box when creating a puzzle so it's more visible to users.

[Ronald_D_D]

Then go with removing them because if you look at it this way, even if the jigsaw doesn't have that many pieces (say 150 pieces), if someone comes across a puzzle raffle with ~10-5 minutes left on the timer, they may not be able to solve the puzzle in time. If you compare these times to other normal puzzle raffles, 10-5 minutes can be enough time if you're fast or good enough. This isn't always the case with jigidi. Of course not all puzzles are easy to solve at the end time, however those are usually far and few between while jigsaws can achieve this "limited time window" much more easily.

 

The more pieces there are, the harder/more impossible it is to complete when you see the raffle nearing it's ending time (at >15, >10, >5 minutes left. etc.) proportional to the amount of pieces it had.

Edited August 23 by Ronald_D_D

[Marvash Magalli]

13 hours ago, Jesse said:

I'd rather keep it simple and either allow or disallow them.

Then yes, everybody agrees, and nobody will miss them.

 

13 hours ago, Jesse said:

I also want to move all puzzle rules to the (semi outdated) yellow box when creating a puzzle so it's more visible to users.

That would help a lot for sure.

[Nellien]

Just to check, if jigsaw puzzles are going to be banned, would it be universally(so not allowed in public and private raffles either) or would they just be banned from the puzzle section?

 

 

[Jesse]

These rules only apply to puzzle raffles, which are publicly listed. It does not apply to private raffles with passwords.

[[JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM]

it should be kept allowed, As a jigsaw puzzler and have met with the person (before she died) who have the world record of the most jigsaw puzzle collection in the world, It actually completed under 10 minute, it also let's more people into the puzzle section of the raffles. Since it basically a barren wasteland due to difficult puzzle. And also the puzzle that non-jigsaw puzzle creator made the difficulty on those puzzle isn't correlate with the majority of the site demographic and logic groups especially with the recent ARG with logic based puzzle From stranger things (yup there was a ARG), the difficulty is pretty into the easy-medium territory when I check it. and most people who joined in is practically brand new to logic based puzzles.

 

Banning them might cause problem and complains against the site, and would be bad for the site as people would call out the site for being over enforcement for mundane rules like banning jigsaw puzzle, and would be a humiliating blow for scrap.tf.

Edited August 24 by [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM

[Ronald_D_D]

1 hour ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

It actually completed under 10 minute

If it takes a WR holder to complete a Jigidi in 10 minutes, then it likely does not apply to the majority of the users. This still does not consider the total number of pieces higher than what it took for a WR of 10 minutes and it does not consider the colours of the pieces.

 

1 hour ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

it also let's more people into the puzzle section of the raffles. Since it basically a barren wasteland due to difficult puzzle.

This is a debatable topic and can be judged only by the history of the puzzle section. I have seen long streaks of both difficult and very easy puzzle raffles that do not contain jigsaws during times when the puzzle section wasn't a barren wasteland. It's possible to make a puzzle that is not a jigsaw and still not be creative.

 

It is true that jigsaws are an easy way to get new users into posting a puzzle raffle, but since they are new users, like any puzzle, there is a high margin of error that can be created. Jigsaws are incredibly easy to create (taking no effort if the user doesn't solve their own jigsaw) and also very easy for new users to post a broken jigsaw to the puzzle section. Also even if everything goes correctly, losing internet connection while solving a Jigidi may cause the site not to display the ending message. Due to how the site is designed, this means you need to solve the same Jigidi over again, which may not be preferable thing for users to do. Especially since you might not be able to distinguish if it's the raffler's message that's missing or your own internet connection not working properly.

 

This is why this thread seems to have been posted, to propose ways to moderate Jigidi raffles, in which it was said already that they preferred to keep moderation simple.

 

1 hour ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

would be bad for the site as people would call out the site for being over enforcement for mundane rules like banning jigsaw puzzle, and would be a humiliating blow for scrap.tf.

The site already has strict enforcement over a lot of things, as is what they have written in their rules. Call it as you wish but it's not new that they have blocked or moderated access to various links that others may agree or may disagree with.

 

Jigidi was proposed to be banned a few years back (in 2017), we said no and since then the issues have continued. To what extent where action is needed is up to them.

 

Lastly if it goes, remember that you should still be able make and link them in private raffles. Any errors or WR 10 minute solves should be allowed to happen there, so long as it's not required to solve the Jigidi in order to complete the main puzzle raffle.

Edited August 24 by Ronald_D_D
Added line.

[Marvash Magalli]

2 hours ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

have met with the person (before she died) who have the world record of the most jigsaw puzzle collection in the world, It actually completed under 10 minute

I fail to comprehend the utility of this statement. I have met three guys who are very fast at jigidis, two of them have commented this thread and agree on removing them.

 

2 hours ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

it also let's more people into the puzzle section of the raffles

Sure, but for every new users it brings in, five more quit the puzzle section only by reading the word "jigidi" in the puzzle titles.

 

2 hours ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

As a jigsaw puzzler

 

2 hours ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

Since it basically a barren wasteland due to difficult puzzle

You have solved 16 puzzles so far and only made one. What classifies you as a "jigsaw puzzler"? Why are you intervening in a matter that evidently does not affect you?

 

3 hours ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

And also the puzzle that non-jigsaw puzzle creator made the difficulty on those puzzle isn't correlate with the majority of the site demographic and logic groups especially with the recent ARG with logic based puzzle From stranger things (yup there was a ARG), the difficulty is pretty into the easy-medium territory when I check it. and most people who joined in is practically brand new to logic based puzzles.

You might want to rephrase that, cause I once again fail to comprehend the utility of this statement.

 

3 hours ago, [JCGG] Jomarcenter - MJM said:

Banning them might cause problem and complains against the site, and would be bad for the site as people would call out the site for being over enforcement for mundane rules like banning jigsaw puzzle, and would be a humiliating blow for scrap.tf.

People will not care in the slightest about the ban, it will only affect the puzzle section, which is already, and luckily, heavily regulated.

[timomo3]

I have another suggestion but im not sure if its considered simple. What if you require an alternative way to the puzzle when jigidi is involved. Or why not just make jigidi a once a week thing if this is even possible XD (Jigidi Mondays)

 

Else if the only options are to ban or not to ban. I'd say ban since jigidi is kind of dulling the puzzle section because as i said jigidi is fun every once in a while. Besides this, once flash is gone, the jigidi html5 version's interface is not that good (I believe there is no way to make the message pop up again if you close it unless thats just me on mobile)

[Faxon Fury]

It's been almost a week since the last post here, could we get an update on the situation?

[Jesse]

I've just been watching here for more opinions, but it seems almost everyone agrees they should go. I'll update the raffle page soon with this rule.

I also really want to implement a multi-step puzzle system similar to it's too hard, but limit the number of steps.

[Marvash Magalli]

7 hours ago, Jesse said:

I also really want to implement a multi-step puzzle system similar to it's too hard, but limit the number of steps.

That sounds like a really great idea!

[Jesse]

This rule is now implemented.